Porcupine Tree / Steven Wilson - All Things Related Thread

[edin]

Kittaan said
@ Edin - Hellboy has asked that we not post any direct links to stuff like that.  YouTube and similar is fine.

 

I have many Gigs of PT and SW + solo projects, but it sounds like you're far ahead of me. 

 

Yep, no spoilers, or at least just link to it, and label it clearly.  I'll be checking myself, but others might want to be surprised.

 

Have you seen this footage of Porcupine (in a) Tree, in Edinburgh? 8`)   

 




Nice yes I'm glad I asked! I tried emailing you Kitaan I will try again. To the set list yesterday and tonight. Wow! I am so pumped and I wish I could make it to that New York show. 

 

Yes, eyepod I am excites for you but please chexk out Grace For Drowning and Insurgentes. You will love it. As for The Raven, I am digginnit even more and more everyday! I just bought one more deluxe book.for artifactual purposes. Got a good deal and it's still in the Burning Shed package. 

IEM and The Raven will be on my playlist all of this week.

[eyepod]

I didnt receive The Raven for the weekend but did pick up PT The Incident at a local CD shop.

 After a couple listens..Cool...Very very Cool.Recording quality on par with the best in my collection and I love the diversity of techniques.I am hearing flavors of many of my favorite bands melded into their unique sound.Now I have a dozen or so albums to pick up between SW and PT.Excellent.

 

 

[Kittaan]

@ Moggie - Good, you will love it.

 

@ Edin - I'll check my spam filter, but didn't see anything yet.  I agree on the setlists so far.  Love that he's changing it up already, and some interesting choices.  Particularly the closer last night!  Hope these are being recorded.  Very stoked to see this show, especially because they will have tightened it up beyond belief by May!

 

@ Eyepod - very cool indeed.  You will find a pretty wide range with PT from their earliest material (mostly Steven solo) to the one you just got (The Incident).  IMO, all of it worth checking out, some more than others.  If you're interested, I'll dig out my PT top 50 songs thread from the old FourthEye.  That was a fun few days trying to pull that together.  8`)

[eyepod]

@Kittaan-Yea,if it's not too much trouble,dig that top 50 thread up.Sounds interesting.

I think I am going to go ahead and pick up SW's Grace for Drowning.Might as well keep the pipeline flowing.Of course Recommendations are welcome.

[Ravenpig]

eyepod said
@Kittaan-Yea,if it's not too much trouble,dig that top 50 thread up.Sounds interesting.

I think I am going to go ahead and pick up SW's Grace for Drowning.Might as well keep the pipeline flowing.Of course Recommendations are welcome.


 

 

I like PT/Steven Wilson but I am not a huge fan.  That being said, check out Fear of a Blank Planet, the whole thing kicks ass and "Anesthetize" is just fucking killer.

[Kittaan]

@ Eyepod - I reposted this in the old FE forum, and a few other people responded with their own, but can't seem to find it right now.  For now, here's my Top 30+ tracks list from TA, including the album they're from.  I'm interested to see what the other PT fans here think of it, and if you're willing, to see your top tracks:

[I'd also like to start a top SW solo list!]

 








by kittaan
30 Sep, 09 | 01:06 PM







Kittaan's PT Top 30... +
 

Just alpha listed for now, I can't possibly force myself to rank these... not yet anyway...

Title - [ Album ]
".3" - [ In Absentia ]
Ansthetize - [ Fear Of A Blank Planet ]
Blackest Eyes - [ In Absentia ]
Bonnie The Cat - [ The Incident [Disc 2] ]
Circle Of Manias - [ The Incident [Disc 1] ]
Collapse The Light Into The Earth (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Deadwing - [ Deadwing ]
Even Less - [ Recordings ]
Futile - [ Recordings II ]
Halo - [ Deadwing ]
Hatesong - [ Lightbulb Sun (Special Edition) Disc 1 ]
Insignificance - [ Metanoia ]
Lightbulb Sun - [ Lightbulb Sun (Special Edition) Disc 1 ]
Mother & Child Divided - [ Recordings II ]
Neural Rust - [ Insignificance (demos '95-'96) - CD 2 ]
Open Car - [ Deadwing ]
Orchidia [2003 version] - [ Recordings II ]
Shallow - [ Deadwing ]
Shesmovedon [Tim Palmer Mix] - [ Recordings II ]
Signify II - [ Stars Die - The Delerium Years '91-'97 (Disc 2) ]
So Called Friend - [ Deadwing EP (Germany) ]
The Incident - [ The Incident [Disc 1] ]
The Sky Moves Sideways (Alternate Version) - [ The Sky Moves Sideways (Remastered & Expanded)(Disc 2) ]
The Sound Of Muzak - [ In Absentia ]
The Start Of Something Beautiful - [ Deadwing ]
Time Flies - [ The Incident [Disc 1] ]
Tinto Brass - [ Lightbulb Sun (Special Edition) Disc 2 ]
Waiting - [ Insignificance (demos '95-'96) - CD 2 ]
Way Out Of Here - [ Fear Of A Blank Planet ]
Wedding Nails (Demo) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus,Outtakes & Demos) ]

And here are the 12 children that I just couldn't bring myself to kill. [They really belong in the above list, but Bobage is a harsh taskmaster, so you know who to blame in therapy kids....]

A Smart Kid - [ Stupid Dream ]
Cloud Zero - [ Staircase Infinities ]
Drown With Me - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Is Not (Website Exclusive) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Lips Of Ashes (Demo) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Nil Recurring - [ Nil Recurring CDEP ]
Normal - [ Nil Recurring CDEP ]
Remember Me Lover - [ The Incident [Disc 2] ]
Strip The Soul (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
The Creator Has A Mastertape (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Trains (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Wet Ribbon - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]

[edin]

A Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree collector who has been passing his stuff onto me for very reasonable prices got me this. The famed Altamont Vinyl. Altamont was Steven Wilson's first band when he was just 15 years old. You guys remember Simon from the early pre-On the Sunday of Life days? This was Steven's band with him. Simon also has numerous credits on On the Sunday of Life and Up the Downstair. It has about 40 minutes of material. Only 300 of these were ever made and only 250 were released by Headphone Dust. This one is still a sealed one. I'm desperately searching for someone around who can rip the files to FLAC so I don't have to play it. I only have the one other album by them.

 

"Altamont was Steven Wilson and Simon Vockings. It existed between 1983-84. SW was 15/16 years old at the time. All of the music was improvised live onto cassette tapes using primitive analogue synthesisers and a home made echo machine."Recording dates: 7-8-83 / 28-6-83 / 4-84

 

KITTAAN - I first spelled your username wrong on the email send fiekd and it failed but I sent another one that went through so its got to be there somewhere! Check it out or ill pm you. And very nice favorite list, I think we might be on opposite ends of it. I'll post mine later. Glad you like Out Absentia. I also have some more demos from In Absentia that weren't included on there.

 

Eyepod - Glad to hear you got some PT. But please please do check out earlier stuff as some PT fans have been known to have some hostility towards the Incident. I personally love it. Floyd fan? Check out Sky Moves Sideways.

[eyepod]

Why is it every time I visit this thread it costs me another 25 bucks?

Seriously,thanks for all the input,with this "discovery",I don't need no stinking new Tool album....Well,maybe I do.

The incident-purchased

Raven-on the way

GFD- on the way

Insurgentes- in the cart

fear of a blank planet-in the cart

Sky moves sideways-in the cart

Thanks for posting the list Kittan,I might as well add all those to the wish list too.

@Edin-Hell yea,I am a huge Pink Floyd fan.

[edin]

eyepod said
Why is it every time I visit this thread it costs me another 25 bucks?

Seriously,thanks for all the input,with this "discovery",I don't need no stinking new Tool album....Well,maybe I do.

The incident-purchased

Raven-on the way

GFD- on the way

Insurgentes- in the cart

fear of a blank planet-in the cart

Sky moves sideways-in the cart

Thanks for posting the list Kittan,I might as well add all those to the wish list too.

@Edin-Hell yea,I am a huge Pink Floyd fan.


 

Nice! I'm excited for you! Sky Moves Sideways has Floyd written all over it. Up the Downstair is also epic. Don't worry it's money well spent. By the way, you'll probably want the Cover Versions too. Those are out-of-print. Between 2005 - 2010, about once a year-ish, Steven released a single that included a one Cover and one original song. There are 6 of them, 12 songs in total. Personally, it's some of my favorite Steven Wilson material to listen to. He covered a song by Alanis Morissette, ABBA, The Cure, Momus, Prince, and Donovan. They're all awesome. I have them all in mp3/320, if you want to download, I'll send you my email. I've been surprised by how few people know about them. I wish he would've kept making them. "Stoneage Dinosaurs" is another cover, originally by the Cardiacs which is in a tribute album to Tim Smith who suffered two strokes and can't make anymore music. It's an amazing tribute to him.

 

Recently, I had to take a break from the Raven That Refused to Sing and listened to Signify. Man, I definitely do miss Porcupine Tree as well and I hope we hear some news after the Raven has ran it's course.

 

Also got TF100 book recently which has all of the TF numbers 1-100 releases listed with a description. It has some very interesting history of Steven and Porcupine Tree in it. For Steven and Porcupine Tree collectors, it's a must-have. Man, those IEM Escalator to Christmas vinyls, I doubt I'll ever be able to get a hold of anymore or afford them. I have the blue and yellow as of now. It also includes probably some of the least-known Steven material I've heard. I haven't really heard anyone talk about it but it is wonderful stuff. It's a collaboration between other Tonefloat artists like Sand Snowman. Steven has written and played most of the material in it. It includes a vinyl, cd and 108 page book. 1,000 of the book were made, and the last 500 include the CD. Charles says they are almost gone and won't be reprinted.

http://tonefloatrecords.blogspot.com/20 ... tf100.html

[petemasterpete]

Kittaan said
@ Eyepod - I reposted this in the old FE forum, and a few other people responded with their own, but can't seem to find it right now.  For now, here's my Top 30+ tracks list from TA, including the album they're from.  I'm interested to see what the other PT fans here think of it, and if you're willing, to see your top tracks:

[I'd also like to start a top SW solo list!]

 








by kittaan
30 Sep, 09 | 01:06 PM







Kittaan's PT Top 30... +
 

Just alpha listed for now, I can't possibly force myself to rank these... not yet anyway...

Title - [ Album ]
".3" - [ In Absentia ]
Ansthetize - [ Fear Of A Blank Planet ]
Blackest Eyes - [ In Absentia ]
Bonnie The Cat - [ The Incident [Disc 2] ]
Circle Of Manias - [ The Incident [Disc 1] ]
Collapse The Light Into The Earth (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Deadwing - [ Deadwing ]
Even Less - [ Recordings ]
Futile - [ Recordings II ]
Halo - [ Deadwing ]
Hatesong - [ Lightbulb Sun (Special Edition) Disc 1 ]
Insignificance - [ Metanoia ]
Lightbulb Sun - [ Lightbulb Sun (Special Edition) Disc 1 ]
Mother & Child Divided - [ Recordings II ]
Neural Rust - [ Insignificance (demos '95-'96) - CD 2 ]
Open Car - [ Deadwing ]
Orchidia [2003 version] - [ Recordings II ]
Shallow - [ Deadwing ]
Shesmovedon [Tim Palmer Mix] - [ Recordings II ]
Signify II - [ Stars Die - The Delerium Years '91-'97 (Disc 2) ]
So Called Friend - [ Deadwing EP (Germany) ]
The Incident - [ The Incident [Disc 1] ]
The Sky Moves Sideways (Alternate Version) - [ The Sky Moves Sideways (Remastered & Expanded)(Disc 2) ]
The Sound Of Muzak - [ In Absentia ]
The Start Of Something Beautiful - [ Deadwing ]
Time Flies - [ The Incident [Disc 1] ]
Tinto Brass - [ Lightbulb Sun (Special Edition) Disc 2 ]
Waiting - [ Insignificance (demos '95-'96) - CD 2 ]
Way Out Of Here - [ Fear Of A Blank Planet ]
Wedding Nails (Demo) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus,Outtakes & Demos) ]

And here are the 12 children that I just couldn't bring myself to kill. [They really belong in the above list, but Bobage is a harsh taskmaster, so you know who to blame in therapy kids....]

A Smart Kid - [ Stupid Dream ]
Cloud Zero - [ Staircase Infinities ]
Drown With Me - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Is Not (Website Exclusive) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Lips Of Ashes (Demo) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Nil Recurring - [ Nil Recurring CDEP ]
Normal - [ Nil Recurring CDEP ]
Remember Me Lover - [ The Incident [Disc 2] ]
Strip The Soul (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
The Creator Has A Mastertape (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Trains (Extended) - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]
Wet Ribbon - [ Out Absentia (Bonus, Outtakes & Demos) ]






absolutely cannot believe Arriving Somewhere is not on this list, even within the illegitimate bastards... LIST FAIL!

[Kittaan]

^ Put up or shut up Petey. Let's see YOUR list.

 

That being said, yeah, I agree, that should be there.  This was not easy, clearly.  Also, that was a snapshot of my opinion from over 3 years ago... I should do it again!

[edin]

After getting all 3 versions of The Sky Moves Sideways (US Version, UK Version, and 2003 Remaster), finally sitting down to discern the differences between them all. Each one has a different version of Moonloop and a different track listing. And of course the 2003 version has the 34 minute and 42 second alternative version which I think I like best. Somehow the US version put the Sky Moves Sideways Phase 1 and 2 into different tracks with extra names. I hear a lot of stuff on the US version that isn't on the 2003 or UK version. I really love all versions. Definitely one of their greatest old songs.

 

Just bored and thought I'd post my thoughts.

[eyepod]

Finally got around to getting in a few good listening sessions with Grace for Drowning.It is outstanding for sure. I will need a lot more time with it to fully get my head around all the different styles and techniques,but as of right now I love it.

Also,The Incident is really growing on me,better with every listen.Might have to listen to this stuff sober once to get that perspective.

The Raven should arrive today,and Fear of a Blank Planet is on the way.I am confident I will like these as well,can't imagine this guy putting anything bad out.

[Kittaan]

eyepod said
Finally got around to getting in a few good listening sessions with Grace for Drowning.It is outstanding for sure. I will need a lot more time with it to fully get my head around all the different styles and techniques,but as of right now I love it.

Also,The Incident is really growing on me,better with every listen.Might have to listen to this stuff sober once to get that perspective.

The Raven should arrive today,and Fear of a Blank Planet is on the way.I am confident I will like these as well, can't imagine this guy putting anything bad out.


No shit!  I kind of envy you being able to experience all of those for the first time.  Although I imagine it would be a bit overwhelming all at once, or in such quick succession anyway.  I remember digesting each one of those very carefully.  You still have all the old PT to look forward to, plus all of the side projects.  I don't love all the PT members' side work, but there are some jewels in there.

[petemasterpete]

Kittaan said

eyepod said
Finally got around to getting in a few good listening sessions with Grace for Drowning.It is outstanding for sure. I will need a lot more time with it to fully get my head around all the different styles and techniques,but as of right now I love it.

Also,The Incident is really growing on me,better with every listen.Might have to listen to this stuff sober once to get that perspective.

The Raven should arrive today,and Fear of a Blank Planet is on the way.I am confident I will like these as well, can't imagine this guy putting anything bad out.


No shit!  I kind of envy you being able to experience all of those for the first time.  Although I imagine it would be a bit overwhelming all at once, or in such quick succession anyway.  I remember digesting each one of those very carefully.  You still have all the old PT to look forward to, plus all of the side projects.  I don't love all the PT members' side work, but there are some jewels in there.


yes, OSI's first release sitting atop the pile of good side project releases

[Kittaan]

@ Pete - Yes, that's a good'un.

 

And yet another example of why Gavin is one of my favorite drummers:

 

[petemasterpete]

^ yeah man... love this guy too... thanx, hadn't watched that before... that bass line still reminds me of knight rider every damn time

[MOG]

^^ Gavin is a boss ^^

 

So I recently bought Insurgentes and I am a little disappointed.  I mean No Twilight Within the Courts of the Sun is a sick fucking song, but there are some sleepers.  Nowhere near as good as Grace and Raven imo.

[edin]

mogeffingmog said
^^ Gavin is a boss ^^

 

So I recently bought Insurgentes and I am a little disappointed.  I mean No Twilight Within the Courts of the Sun is a sick fucking song, but there are some sleepers.  Nowhere near as good as Grace and Raven imo.

 

 

[edin]

Disagree. Insurgentes was an act of genuis and it shows in the songs. I love the intertwined Mexican-culture influence in it. Harmony Korine, Abandoner, Salvaging, Poison for the Fairies, No Twilight, Get All You Deserve, and Insurgentes are all 10/10 songs. I love them. No sleepers there. I have both of the deluxe book releases. Those pictures of him in the church with the piano are great. I only leave out Only Child, Significant Other and Twilight Coda because they don't stand out like the others do but those are great too. I can't think of any other album that was recorded internationally with just a love for traveling around and making music. Not actually making a record but making music because you love it. That's what he did with Insurgentes. Gavin's drumming is also outstanding on this album. I love how many genres are included in it. There's also plenty of left over songs from that period that are great too like The 78, Western Home, Puncture Wound and Port Rubicon. I think he was overflowing with ideas. Well, Wilson probably always is. Insurgentes is amazing. I can't really compare The Raven to either Grace For Drowning or Insurgentes. I consider the Raven a band-effort not solo like the precious ones. The Raven was highly onfluenced by all the memners this time.

They all are amazing albums though. I listen to the all of the Raven at least once a day.

[MOG]

edin said
Disagree. Insurgentes was an act of genuis and it shows in the songs. I love the intertwined Mexican-culture influence in it. Harmony Korine, Abandoner, Salvaging, Poison for the Fairies, No Twilight, Get All You Deserve, and Insurgentes are all 10/10 songs. I love them. I have both of the deluxe book releases. Those pictures of him in the church with the piano are great. I only leave out Only Child, Significant Other and Twilight Coda because they don't stand out like the others do but those are great too. I can't think of any other album that was recorded internationally with just a love for traveling around and making music. Not actually making a record but making music because you love it. That's what he did with Insurgentes. Galvin's drumming is also outstanding on this album. I love how many genres are included in it. There's also plenty of left over songs from that period that are great too like The 78, Western Home, Puncture Wound and Port Rubicon. I think he was overflowing with ideas. Well, Wilson probably always is. Insurgentes is amazing. I can't really compare The Raven to either Grace For Drowning or Insurgentes. I consider the Raven a band-effort. They all are amazing albums though. I listen to the all of the Raven at least once a day.


First of all, your response was a pleasure to read.  It is kind of rare around here to get a response where someone expresses a dissenting opinion without restoring to ad hominem nonsense. Your post was very concise and thoughtful.

I should probably clarify myself a bit.  I don't think Insurgentes is a bad album by any stretch.  I have a hard time imagining Steven Wilson putting out anything of poor quality.  I just think, in comparison to Grace and Raven, Insurgentes feels a bit disjointed. 

It does cover a lot of ground musically, which is always the case with Steven, but Insurgentes lacks a bit of cohesion.  The songs don't really flow well together.  In other words, if feels like several of the songs almost belong on different albums.  When I think of Grace and Raven, I don't just think of one song.  You couldn't remove one of the songs without impacting the albums dramatically.  Insurgentes doesn't feel that way at all.  It is entirely possible that was by design, and again, Steven certainly didn't fail to deliver.  Quite a bit of good music on the album, but a few weakish songs, and as I said, a few that don't fit well together.  All in all though, still a very solid album.

 

[Kittaan]

@ Mog and Edin - Interesting exchange above.  Here are my thoughts on it:

 

Insurgentes was Steven stepping out on his own from Porcupine Tree, with all that he'd gathered in the years since PT was a "lark" on his own.  He has said numerous times that PT grew into a band and became a democracy.  This had both positive and negative aspects for him as an artist, writer, musician etc.  This guy is relentlessly creative and his talents grow year by year.  Insurgentes was his first solo project and he was literally bursting with ideas for it.  You say "in comparison to Grace and Raven, Insurgentes feels a bit disjointed." I say: I can see the evolution of Insurgentes to Grace to Raven and appreciate the stages in the "second coming" of his solo career (again PT began as a solo project).  Can't wait to hear the NEXT one!

 

I have had this debate with Bobage many times: which of them is the "best / favorite / whatever" and I just can't choose.  They all scratch a different itch for me.

 

The main thing I wanted to say to Mog is I think a lot of what you experienced has to do with the order in which you experienced Insurgentes.  I vividly remember getting it in the mail, tearing the box open and devouring it.  Must have listened to it a dozen times all the way through that evening.  My wife and kid were so sick of it.  But as I mentioned to Eyepod earlier in this thread, it would be kind of daunting to try to absorb all 3 at the same time... and I do think that some of the material would "suffer" for it... meaning that some of it would just not be appreciated the same way.  Hope that makes sense.  

 

[Kittaan]

petemasterpete said
^ yeah man... love this guy too... thanx, hadn't watched that before... that bass line still reminds me of knight rider every damn time


I remember you saying that.  LOLz.  Interesting to find that it originated with Gavin as a counterpoint to his beat, huh?

[MOG]

Kittaan said
The main thing I wanted to say to Mog is I think a lot of what you experienced has to do with the order in which you experienced Insurgentes.  I vividly remember getting it in the mail, tearing the box open and devouring it.  Must have listened to it a dozen times all the way through that evening.  My wife and kid were so sick of it.  But as I mentioned to Eyepod earlier in this thread, it would be kind of daunting to try to absorb all 3 at the same time... and I do think that some of the material would "suffer" for it... meaning that some of it would just not be appreciated the same way.  Hope that makes sense.  
 


You make an interesting point there.  Certainly something to think on.  One could look at the opposite way though, in that being able to go back over the albums from newest to oldest can have it's advantages.  It removes that personal aspect from the objective analysis.  As you said, when Insurgentes came out, you were incredibly excited about it, and that COULD have colored your perception.  Not saying it did, rather tossing it out as a point of interest.

I absolutely agree about seeing the progression.  Insurgentes feels disjointed precisely because it feels like Steven couldn't find a way to focus that creativity in one direction.  Grace exhibits more cohesive song writing and Raven even adds a central thematic element to the album.  Certainly an evolution in song writing.  All three albums are wonderful.  But for me, Insurgentes is quite a bit behind Grace and Raven.

[eyepod]

+1 on the intelligent exchange going on here.

I hoped to be on here ranting about the Raven by now,but the US postal service solved my dilemma of having too much SW material to digest at one time...They "miss directed"( Lost) my package.Oh well,got Fear of a Blank planet on the way and have barely gotten to know GFD and The Incident so far.