The Grudge (WARNING: 26 years to #6?)

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children
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by children » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 pm

When 10,000 Days came out you had people making the same argument that there was just nothing as compelling as what they had done before, now there is people saying that there is nothing on Fear Inoculum that is as compelling as 10,000 Days. The cycle continues.

Why do people have to compare all the time? It's not a competition. These are entirely different songs. Also people can't seem to make up there mind about what they dislike. People complain that it sounds too much like there old stuff and they are not doing anything new, and then they say it doesn't sound enough like there old stuff.

Maybe it's too early to make a final judgement. It hasn't even been two weeks yet. When a band releases new music, I don't think it should be looked at as something that is meant to be better than their previous work. It is merely a continuation of the story and evolution that the albums before have laid out.

Each song Tool has ever done is entirely unique and explores its own space. It is absolutely pointless to say one is better because they all hold a specific purpose and musical value. I may think that Third Eye is one of the greatest songs ever, but should Sober not exist because I don't think it's quite as groundbreaking? I still love Sober because of what it is on its own merits and place in music history.

Songs like Pneuma, Invincible, Descending are absolutely necessary themes that deserve to be among the rest of Tool's catalogue.

These songs reflect what Tool have done in the past. If you appreciate what they have accomplished in the past, these songs should be more than welcome. If not than I don't think you like Tool as much as you thought, and probably only ever liked the teenage angst of the early days...
"That's what you get when you argue with children..." -Tyson

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by tys0n » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:16 pm

Sober can fuck right off, both the song and the sensation.
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by Calfium Jay » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:02 pm

children wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 pm

These songs reflect what Tool have done in the past. If you appreciate what they have accomplished in the past, these songs should be more than welcome. If not than I don't think you like Tool as much as you thought, and probably only ever liked the teenage angst of the early days...

Making. Giant. Assumptions. About. Why. Other. People. Like. This. Or That. And How/Why. They. Engage. On. An Emotional Level. To A Statement. Of Artistic. Expression..


..is a trait one commonly associates with *teenagers* in the first place.

Congratulations on your lapse in social skills.

Enjoy what's left of your breakfast.


:|
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by Calfium Jay » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:04 pm

For the record I'd give the album a mid to light 6.
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by children » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:11 pm

Calfium Jay wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:02 pm
children wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 pm

These songs reflect what Tool have done in the past. If you appreciate what they have accomplished in the past, these songs should be more than welcome. If not than I don't think you like Tool as much as you thought, and probably only ever liked the teenage angst of the early days...

Making. Giant. Assumptions. About. Why. Other. People. Like. This. Or That. And How/Why. They. Engage. On. An Emotional Level. To A Statement. Of Artistic. Expression..


..is a trait one commonly associates with *teenagers* in the first place.

Congratulations on your lapse in social skills.

Enjoy what's left of your breakfast.


:|
Teenage angst is merely a way to describe the aggression of Tool's early songs, particularly the way Maynard used to sing them. I wasn't literally calling you a teenager, but I am willing to bet you were a teenager when you first heard Tool and that aggression was what drew you to them in the first place because that's how they managed to gain a following for the majority of their audience in the 90's. Are my assumptions wrong so far?

As Tool progressed, they moved further from that aggression and explored a more tranquil sound as they matured. Some people were turned off and were upset about the change because in their eyes Tool had lost what was compelling for them. Each album gradually lost a little bit more of that 'teenage angst,' but it still came through here and there. Lateralus still had a good amount of it in Maynard's vocals in songs like Grudge, Ticks, and there were moments in Parabola and Schism where you had Maynard's climactic delivery that satisfied that itch, so people eventually came to appreciate it.

On 10k, there was even less aggression that called back to the early days. Even more people were turned off, with the only aggressive songs being Vicarious, Jambi, and The Pot. Even then that 'teenage angst' was only sparsley there and didn't quite satisfy that itch for a lot of people.

So as far as I can tell that is the logical explanation for why 10k was such a let down for so many people, and why Fear Inoculum is a let down for the exact same reason. People keep expecting Tool to go back to a previous time in their career and it's just not going to happen...
"That's what you get when you argue with children..." -Tyson

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by ms2r » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:15 pm

….. And glad they don't. The evolution of tool is what makes them so good. Evolving but still sounding like tool.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by tys0n » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:18 pm

children wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:11 pm
People keep expecting Tool to go back to a previous time in their career and it's just not going to happen...
They literally did though with 7empest.
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by children » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm

Yeah 7empest is pretty aggressive but it still doesn't quite reach that level where Maynard is doing bloodcurdling screams. I love it for what it is. As a prog rock song it is an absolute masterpiece.
"That's what you get when you argue with children..." -Tyson

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by 7oolband » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:22 pm

damn you 7ooL. you should have made a double album!
:?: i was right, this changes everything|devil&his had me down|this tedious path i've chosen here|what's coming through is alive|slipping back into the gap again|rRrreal fuckin high on drugs|spark becomes a flame|mention anything to me :!:

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by Raffa D » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:19 pm

children wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 pm
When 10,000 Days came out you had people making the same argument that there was just nothing as compelling as what they had done before, now there is people saying that there is nothing on Fear Inoculum that is as compelling as 10,000 Days. The cycle continues.

Why do people have to compare all the time? It's not a competition. These are entirely different songs. Also people can't seem to make up there mind about what they dislike. People complain that it sounds too much like there old stuff and they are not doing anything new, and then they say it doesn't sound enough like there old stuff.

Maybe it's too early to make a final judgement. It hasn't even been two weeks yet. When a band releases new music, I don't think it should be looked at as something that is meant to be better than their previous work. It is merely a continuation of the story and evolution that the albums before have laid out.

Each song Tool has ever done is entirely unique and explores its own space. It is absolutely pointless to say one is better because they all hold a specific purpose and musical value. I may think that Third Eye is one of the greatest songs ever, but should Sober not exist because I don't think it's quite as groundbreaking? I still love Sober because of what it is on its own merits and place in music history.

Songs like Pneuma, Invincible, Descending are absolutely necessary themes that deserve to be among the rest of Tool's catalogue.

These songs reflect what Tool have done in the past. If you appreciate what they have accomplished in the past, these songs should be more than welcome. If not than I don't think you like Tool as much as you thought, and probably only ever liked the teenage angst of the early days...
I Just want to say, that i'm absolutely agree with 'Children' BTW I give the album a 10/10. Because i'm a positive guy and have nothing negative to say. I can't make a better album. Oh wait, I wish all the seagues would fit on the cd as well, so I wish it was a double cd.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by liz » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:29 pm

I'm just really pissed that I didn't know TooL as an angsty teen. Fuck you TooL for not starting sooner!
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by earthrocker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:35 pm

tys0n wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:16 pm
Sober can fuck right off, both the song and the sensation.
This
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by C_Dreyer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:59 pm

Two cents no one asked for...

Tool ceased breaking molds and really exploring new forms after the D/R/T crossroads, in my lame opinion. I always fantasized they would have taken what was synthezied there and turn it inside out, ditching everything they accomplished prior, not looking back and becoming a completely different band. They didn't and that's ok. I've enjoyed immensely everything they've done since then (including FI), it's been an exacting refinement of, and elaboration on their strengths. A rewarding process for most fans to hear and experience I reckon, but maybe not mind-blowing ala Aenima and Lateralus.

Now bring on the live catalogue I say, or JC/DC! Fuck proper studio albums and feed the beast 👹

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by tys0n » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:28 am

C_Dreyer wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:59 pm
Two cents no one asked for...

Tool ceased breaking molds and really exploring new forms after the D/R/T crossroads, in my lame opinion. I always fantasized they would have taken what was synthezied there and turn it inside out, ditching everything they accomplished prior, not looking back and becoming a completely different band.
Completely agree and always thought they would. I thought they'd follow the mold of Radiohead in spirit, when they released OK Computer but then turned their world upside down with Kid A.

Alas we got 10,000 days, which is all well and good but not the drastic change we were hoping for.
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by Takeo » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:03 am

GabesCaves wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:52 pm
Takeo wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:09 am
I don’t agree that this record sounds like Tool. Stylistically, the songs are missing vocals, direction, momentum, punch, climax, and release. That’s not Tool. I’ve gone back to it several times, but while it sounds good with plenty of supposed “complexities,” it’s not resonating. No songs here hold up to the highlights from previous albums.
What is missing is Maynard's soaring melodies. His melody provides essential balance to probably the best rhythm section in the history of rock.

Historically, Maynards melodic singing provides balance to their intense and complex rhythms. It provides emphasis on their insanely tasteful tempo changes. This dynamic on FI is just not up to the standards they have set on the prior records.

tl,dr: Maynard's role within the bands dynamic has been modified leaving their melodic balance lacking in comparison to their back catalog.
I agree with this. Is there a hook on the entire record? If the songs were chopped down to 7-8 minutes, which is their sweet spot, then maybe more melodies would come to the forefront. But instead whatever hooks and melodies are teased just sort of deaden over the course of the meandering jam sessions. Album also need more variety. The Tempest riff starts and you finally come to attention again.

Got my cd yesterday so still looking forward to more proper listens.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by Boldizar » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:38 am

Maynard is way more melodic and hook-ey on this album than he was on Days. He sings just as much on these songs as others. The instrumental parts are just more developed. Maynard is extremely on point with this album. He did a fantastic job.
Dan Brown's Fear Inoculum: Best novel ever written, inspiring, worth the wait, not enough yelling, every page reads like the DaVinci Code... 3/10

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by hellboy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:51 am

Maynard's work is pretty low on my list of criticisms on this album. There's very little of him on it I don't like. No real shortage of catchy hooks and melodies imo.

It's just he sings different, which is always going to rub some up the wrong way.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by tys0n » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:54 am

One criticism of the Nard, him singing during the synth solo of Invincible

Oh yeah I already posted about that, cool beans.
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by Boldizar » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:15 am

tys0n wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:54 am
One criticism of the Nard, him singing during the synth solo of Invincible

Oh yeah I already posted about that, cool beans.
The synth part is the harmony to his vocal part that carries through the rest of the song though... they are married. :(
Dan Brown's Fear Inoculum: Best novel ever written, inspiring, worth the wait, not enough yelling, every page reads like the DaVinci Code... 3/10

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by rinkwhopper » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:33 am

the vocoder effect is the worst part of the Invincible. I dislike that effect unless I'm listening to like... Air or Black Moth Super Rainbow.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by GabesCaves » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:01 pm

children wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:04 pm
When 10,000 Days came out you had people making the same argument that there was just nothing as compelling as what they had done before, now there is people saying that there is nothing on Fear Inoculum that is as compelling as 10,000 Days. The cycle continues.

Why do people have to compare all the time? It's not a competition. These are entirely different songs. Also people can't seem to make up there mind about what they dislike. People complain that it sounds too much like there old stuff and they are not doing anything new, and then they say it doesn't sound enough like there old stuff.

Maybe it's too early to make a final judgement. It hasn't even been two weeks yet. When a band releases new music, I don't think it should be looked at as something that is meant to be better than their previous work. It is merely a continuation of the story and evolution that the albums before have laid out.

Each song Tool has ever done is entirely unique and explores its own space. It is absolutely pointless to say one is better because they all hold a specific purpose and musical value. I may think that Third Eye is one of the greatest songs ever, but should Sober not exist because I don't think it's quite as groundbreaking? I still love Sober because of what it is on its own merits and place in music history.

Songs like Pneuma, Invincible, Descending are absolutely necessary themes that deserve to be among the rest of Tool's catalogue.

These songs reflect what Tool have done in the past. If you appreciate what they have accomplished in the past, these songs should be more than welcome. If not than I don't think you like Tool as much as you thought, and probably only ever liked the teenage angst of the early days...
Jambi grabbed me the second I heard it. Maynards falsetto on The Pot might be the most incredible vocal I have ever heard.

But 10000 Days was my least favorite then, and now it ranks the same, although I do appreciate it more now than 13 years ago, so I'll agree with you on that.

When I first heard Ænima- Eulogy, 46n2, H, Jimmy, Pushit and 3rd Eye grabbed me immediately.

The new album is terrific and I always want to listen to it again, but I think the others are better.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by ToolFanFromWayBack » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:47 pm

In my opinion this album ranks pretty low on the list of studio albums. As was said above, nothing on this album really grabs hold of me. After my first listen, I wrote that the songs on this album are like musical edging. They build to a crescendo where you would expect them to go into the hard driving sonic wall of past songs, but they revert back to the main beat. Like edging, if you do not complete, you end up with blue balls.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by rshforgothispw » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:38 pm

Maybe it just needs time to settle with you guys? PNUEMA didn’t originally grab me like most when I first heard it but now I’m seeking it out daily. The middle jam section in fear Inoculum is straight up new territory for them and I love it! Very Floydian. Descending to me is a total masterpiece. That song alone was worth the 13 year wait. Invincible has a saucy breakdown that rivals fucking Jambi and has some of Maynard’s best lyrics. Then tempest is straight up opiate/undertow. It sucks that some of you don’t dig it but to me they scratched every itch.

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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by tys0n » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:54 pm

Kinda feel they rushed this album.
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Re: The Grudge (WARNING: It Hapenned!!)

Post by liz » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:27 pm

Justin streamrolled the rest of the band with his impatience. Blame him for this hurried effort.
"She's a very charming and delightful creature, and has only one fault that I know of. It happens, unfortunately, that that single blemish is a want of taste. She don't like me."

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