Traders Nest

[bag-a-bones]

Appreciate it!

[Ettan]

Is anyone here a taper? I need some advice. I'm planing on taping a local band soon.

Equipment: Zoom H4N
Room: Fits 500 people, fairly small.

I need help with settings and the location, or just some tips and tricks. Danke

Here's a photo taken from the stage:

[nameloc]

Is anyone here a taper? I need some advice. I'm planing on taping a local band soon.

Equipment: Zoom H4N
Room: Fits 500 people, fairly small.

I need help with settings and the location, or just some tips and tricks. Danke

Here's a photo taken from the stage:

"stealth taping" or "open taping"..?

[Ettan]

open taping

[Kittaan]

Are they going to be finished with construction by show time?

[Ettan]

Haha yes.

[nameloc]

open taping

good. I'll try to keep this cut and dry.

first, if you haven't already join the forum at http://www.taperssection.com that is where all of the wisdom is.
secondly, eventually, you are going to want to get a set of "outboard" mics..but that is another issue entirely.

That is a very nice recorder you have.. I personally have never used one ( I just read up on that deck) , however, I can tell you basically what you want to do,or what most people would do (myself included) with any recorder (using on-board mics) in your situation.

.."open taping".. the band/venue is allowing you to record. its likely they will allow/accomodate you to use some sort of "stand" for your "gear". I would most definitely go buy a "mic stand" or at the very least a "tabletop tripod/stand" to mount that recorder to. Normally, you would want to run outboard mics and mount those, but since that deck has internals (and I assume you will be using them).. you need to get them in a good position ( in relation to the sound source) and you need to make sure they (the deck is) are secure and free from being moved around..bumped..ect. That will greatly affect the recording. That deck has a threaded "port" on the bottom to screw a mounting rod into, so as it can be affixed to a stand/tripod. I would personally go to the store (or order) a small footprint sized mic stand ( with the necessary threaded part to mount the deck, same way a camera would mount to one)
There are two main ways to approach the placement of the mics/deck/gear (and I dont know exactly what the venue will allow, thats why its best to get there early and speak to them about it (nicely)..just explain what you are doing and that you will not interfere with anyone/anything and will stay out of the way.
1) generally, you would want to "triangulate" your taping position from the speakers.. generally this would be center of the floor, mid way or more to the rear.. you will get a nice stereo image and full sound with some ambient "crowd noise".. sometimes though this isnt possible due to the layout of the venue or any other number of things.
2) "hump the stacks".. meaning get right up on one of the speakers.. this gets minimal to no crowd noise and the sound is basically right in your face on the recording, but the sound volume greatly increases so you have to watch your levels, and if the house speakers sound like hell ( blown speakers,rattling bass) you are going to get alot of that on the recording. Usually youre not going to be running a stand right in front of the speakers, so youd have to basically serve as the "stand" yourself, which gets into an entire different realm of taping..much like "stealthing". so, see what you can do at the venue and then make a decision based on that.

the deck..
You are going to want to get a micro sd card and put it in.. you will get a lot more recording memory that way, especially if you are recording in a non-mp3 format which I assume you will be doing.
That deck can record 4-channel. Make sure you are set to do 2-channel. Make sure the "phantom power" is turned OFF, that is power being supplied ( by the decks batteries for a set of external mics). make sure you have the "recording mode" set to the rate that you want..16/44.1, ect.. MAKE SURE the "recording levels" is set to "manual" so you can adjust them manually at the show..this is paramount. Put good,fresh new batteries in the deck.. dont use cheap batteries.. there is almost nothing worse than running out of power at a show ( been there, done that). You are going to want to practice with the deck.. get in front of your stereo at home, turn it up very loud, and practice turning the deck on, getting it completely set to record ( proper settings) and recording with the levels set correctly,.. you want the meters just a hair over the center.. if you push it too close to the max, you will "clip" or "brickwall" the mics and the recording will distort, and at that point there is absolutely no way to fix it.. none. You can always add more gain later if you want to boost it in the recording.. you cant take it away if you go too far. Every show will be at different volumes, and I dont know how sensitive those mics are, so it will take you a few shows to learn where to set it according to whatever sound you are dealing with. Once you get good at seting up the recorder to record, and you have the levels issue under control, when you are actually taping a show, do not forget to "lock" the recorder so that you dont accidentally hit "stop" or "pause".. this can happen very easily if you arent paying attention and the recorder isnt locked in "rec mode".
When its on a stand, ideally, you want it set up above the crowd (peoples heads).. this gets the mics away from chatter, and free to pickup the music clearly...think of the mics as your ears, but much more sensitive and less forgiving. so, in your case, youd have the deck mounted up to the stand.. probably waist/chest high, when the show starts ( OR IDEALLY DURING SOUNDCHECK, IF YOU CAN GET IN WITH PERMISSION AND SETUP, AND GET ALL OF YOUR LEVELS "DIALED IN BEFORE THE ACTUAL SHOW STARTS, THAT WAY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO LATER IS HIT "RECORD"), you would get it recording correctly,levels,,ect.. LOCK IT.. then raise it up on the stand a little to get it in the air. If you have an sd card in the deck you will have plenty of record time, if your levels are set right initially you wont have to worry about that, and if you have good batteries in, the deck wont die out. You will want the deck set up on the stand "flat" (parallel with the floor), not standing upright.
Open taping tends to attract stupid people.. and drunken idiots. you would be amazed at the people who will basically walk directly in front of your stuff ( when the rest of the area is totally clear) and bump or kick your stand as they walk by.. its fucking amazing. or, they will come stand directly underneath your stuff when there is plenty of standing room elsewhere. stay by your gear, you may even need to act as a "blocker".. do not leave your gear unattended..EVER.. either you are there with it, or a friend of yours is. Unfortunately, ( as you can read about on taperssection.com) people get their stuff stolen often.. it only takes a few seconds.
If you are getting a seat at a bar table type thing.. you can pick up one of those small table top tripods/stands. they serve the same purpose, but if the deck/mics are on a table, chances are they arent going to be all that high off of the floor, so the sound may be affected.
I would practice,practice practice with that deck at home until you know every setting/mode/function and can get it going in seconds..IN LOW LIGHT. Venues are usually dark, so you need to be overly familiar with your gear ( I could honestly probably set my entire "open rig" up and get it recording with my eyes shut)

I would most definitely go to taperssection.com and read up on your deck.. I'm sure there are specific hints and whatnot from people that use the same deck.

feel free to drop me an email with any other type of question.

welcome to the club.

just to illustrate: this will kind of give you an idea of what I'm talking about

http://www.uniquesquared.com/eBayImgs/z ... ithbl3.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com/surround201 ... 6791600002
http://picasaweb.google.com/surround201 ... 7660103970
http://picasaweb.google.com/surround201 ... 6049526482

here are some picks of my stuff setup for "open taping":
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46018790@ ... 023493024/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46018790@ ... 023753223/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46018790@ ... 026303053/

[iloveposters]

Any suggestions for recording with an iPhone? I am going to a concert I would like to record but do not have the funds right now to purchase a professional recorder. I am thinking of using the app ClearRecord Lite and using the WAV setting...Thanks

[The Boss]

Any suggestions for recording with an iPhone? I am going to a concert I would like to record but do not have the funds right now to purchase a professional recorder. I am thinking of using the app ClearRecord Lite and using the WAV setting...Thanks

Not sure if it's available for iPhone, but I used to use Hi-Q MP3 Voice Recorder when demoing songs at my friend's apartment. It worked fine, and I assume it would do the same job at a gig.

[nameloc]

your main issue at a show will be the high SPLs (sound pressure levels) that will likely overpower the phones built-in "microphone".. it'll probably massively distort the recording. If you're going anyhow.. might as well give it a shot.

[not tyson]

Just take in a boom box

[iloveposters]

your main issue at a show will be the high SPLs (sound pressure levels) that will likely overpower the phones built-in "microphone".. it'll probably massively distort the recording. If you're going anyhow.. might as well give it a shot.

Thanks! I also found out that iPhones record in mono, so I'm guessing that after the show I can import the WAV file (the app has a setting for WAV set at 48kHz or 16kHz) into ProTools or Audacity, and paste the mono on two channels and hopefully give it more of a stereo sound. I also know some intermediate sound engineering from working with a friend, so I probably can compress it, throw a few EQ's on it and see how it comes out. The venue I am going to is known for it's sound being superb so hopefully I can get a semi-decent recording. I don't have high hopes here, but if it's listenable I will be happy. I have done some recording with the VoiceMemo app before and the iPhone for some reason loves to elevate the higher end frequencies, it is almost like it pushes the treble to the max and the cymbals sound washy. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Ettan]

Thanks nameloc! Will post the results on saturday.

[xZ1mM3r]

Just take in a boom box

pop in a cassette, and start recording!!

but first make sure you listen to the cassette first to ensure you arent recording over important material from the 1980s

[nameloc]

Just take in a boom box

pop in a cassette, and start recording!!

but first make sure you listen to the cassette first to ensure you arent recording over important material from the 1980s

Some of the best live recordings ever have actually been made using cassette tapes. Its not so much the media..its all about the mics and the rig..and knowing what you're doing.

Read about "Mike the Mic" sometime..aka Mike Milliard.

[xZ1mM3r]

Just take in a boom box

pop in a cassette, and start recording!!

but first make sure you listen to the cassette first to ensure you arent recording over important material from the 1980s

Some of the best live recordings ever have actually been made using cassette tapes. Its not so much the media..its all about the mics and the rig..and knowing what you're doing.

Read about "Mike the Mic" sometime..aka Mike Milliard.

I wasn't knocking on cassette recording. I was making a funny about old media.

[gerbil]

An IEM recording from the Toledo 2012 show has recently been posted to soundcloud. Enjoy!



https://soundcloud.com/nameloc01/sets/t ... -24-12-the

Is this still up anywhere?

[Ettan]

The taping went, well ok I guess. A girl that stood right next to me kept screaming throughout the show. I didn't get my hands on a pod for my zoom so I just held it. The audio levels are too low imo and I'll have to edit that later. Sound guy wasn't the best either as the vocals were drowned in the mix, nothing I could do about that. Any audio editing Tool that someone would recommend? I have Adobe Audition, Premiere Pro and Audacity.

[nameloc]

The taping went, well ok I guess. A girl that stood right next to me kept screaming throughout the show. I didn't get my hands on a pod for my zoom so I just held it. The audio levels are too low imo and I'll have to edit that later. Sound guy wasn't the best either as the vocals were drowned in the mix, nothing I could do about that. Any audio editing Tool that someone would recommend? I have Adobe Audition, Premiere Pro and Audacity.

I had a drunk chick attack me once at a 311 show.. she saw my mics clipped to my jacket and started screaming incoherently and proceeded to physically knock them (the mics) off of my shirt..

cant help you on software.. I mix mine on an analog mixing board.

[Ettan]

Haha, typical. I'll just use what I'm most comfortable with, Premiere. Even though it's a video program it has some lovely audio features.

[Ettan]

Only thing I edited was gain

[gerbil]

It really sounds like Maynard is using some sort of effect that helps him with the higher keys, similar too a chours effect. Maybe some really light autotune.. [BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

Going by the IEMs I'm gonna go with a light chorus or flange maybe even a delay. Possibly even recording artifacts.

The really dry Charlotte IEM from 2012 doesn't really have it from what I remember. I gotta guess that the Charlotte and Reno IEMs are Maynard's cuz they're really dry (few effects).

[Ettan]

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

[Kittaan]

Great project. I think they should state their intention regarding not-for-profit directly in each YouTube vid's comment section to avoid any confusion / site shutdown, etc.

[Ettan]

Have you seen the comments on the reddit post? Not a single positive comment. Wow, people are fucking dumb. Tool fans are the worst, really. I'm glad I'm not a Tool taper, I would just get hated on and people would say "Maynard hates you!!". Idiots. The reddit community sucks balls.