F O U R T H E Y E

I guess I'll wait for others to weigh in, didn't notice much racism while I was in England or France either.

But then I don't speak French.

not tyson wrote:I guess I'll wait for others to weigh in, didn't notice much racism while I was in England or France either.

But then I don't speak French.

Wh...what? How is this conversation about racism?!

You've proven my point. These words only have power in the mind of the receiver. Jesus Christ.

"Racism" to me is negatively focusing on a specific trait or difference about someone that isn't from your stock. AT NO POINT have I ever said, claimed, or demonstrated that that is how these words are being used.

I'm dumbfounded. I really am.

Words take on new meanings almost yearly. I can't think of a solid example right now (apologies) but the history of English is fucking littered with words that have completely different meanings from their original intention. You hip, my cats?

Not to push this point any further (because it's getting me nowhere), but let's consider another term we have all used (admit it): "fag". No, not in a cigarette sense; you've used it to describe something "naff", "odd", or just plain dumb. "What a faggy shot on goal". "Nice shirt, fag". "I want to put my penis in your fag ass".

Maybe not the last one, but you get my point. Surely.

Surely someone out there gets my point. There has to be.

You've been to France? I thought it was just England?

You lucky bastard.

Oh, and because why not: Have any of you white people actually experienced racism?

I think you'll find a direct correlation between your indignation and the complete and utter lack of violent racism you've experienced in your life.

Just something to consider.

Sorry, my point was, one you skipped was "As to your work situation and your worldly travels where people through around racist remarks as causally as hello and goodbye I gotta call bullshit"

I could see it in Korea because Asians are racist as fuck but if you're working at a multi national company where people are dropping nigger and jew in casual conversation at work, I would probably leave. That sounds unprofessional as fuck and a fucking huge nightmare for the HR department.

The Boss wrote: I'm not arguing that I should be able to say whatever the fuck I want, wherever I want - I'm arguing that YOU should have the ability to ignore shit you think is stupid. And be able to understand WHY you think it's stupid.

Great idea. Let me find the ban button...

not tyson wrote:Sorry, my point was, one you skipped was "As to your work situation and your worldly travels where people through around racist remarks as causally as hello and goodbye I gotta call bullshit"

I could see it in Korea because Asians are racist as fuck but if you're working at a multi national company where people are dropping nigger and jew in casual conversation at work, I would probably leave. That sounds unprofessional as fuck and a fucking huge nightmare for the HR department.

Understood. This is between a tiny team of six (now four) people. And I agree.

Auckland is weird. We have jeans Fridays, and some people take it to the extreme. Two chicks across the floor decided to basically strip down to their singlets. One of them was told to put her cardigan back on, which she did - only to strip off an hour later. In a fucking cold office.

So, in terms of unprofessionalism, maybe my workplace is a little lax?

hellboy wrote:

The Boss wrote: I'm not arguing that I should be able to say whatever the fuck I want, wherever I want - I'm arguing that YOU should have the ability to ignore shit you think is stupid. And be able to understand WHY you think it's stupid.

Great idea. Let me find the ban button...

Ugh. Fine. You win by default.

Better?

Why should I ignore blatant racism on this website? Just because it's in jest, or you somehow justify it to yourself as somehow being part of your daily routine doesn't make it any less offensive. It's quite laughable actually. Anyway, enough of this shit

hellboy wrote:Why should I ignore blatant racism on this website? Just because it's in jest, or you somehow justify it to yourself as somehow being part of your daily routine doesn't make it any less offensive. It's quite laughable actually. Anyway, enough of this shit

I agree.

hellboy wrote:Why should I ignore blatant racism on this website? Just because it's in jest, or you somehow justify it to yourself as somehow being part of your daily routine doesn't make it any less offensive. It's quite laughable actually. Anyway, enough of this shit

But it's ok to publicly wish death on the Prime Minister?

You're funny.

Calfium Jay wrote:

hellboy wrote:Why should I ignore blatant racism on this website? Just because it's in jest, or you somehow justify it to yourself as somehow being part of your daily routine doesn't make it any less offensive. It's quite laughable actually. Anyway, enough of this shit

But it's ok to publicly wish death on the Prime Minister?

You're funny.

No it's not, it was a foolish statement that I made, even though it was in jest.

I'm not getting off my high horse though, Crow's statement was racist and should be condemned, as my statement was.

Yeah, in all fairness I can't see a "happy ending" ever resulting from a "racist" rant on a message board.

hellboy wrote:I'm not getting off my high horse though, Crow's statement was racist and should be condemned, as my statement was.

I think its great that idiot statements are made and then commented upon. With a bit of luck we stop and think about what we have said and may be more considerate with our language in the future.

Obviously Crow did not understand that he was being extremely racist. Now he does.

I suspect that you realised what a dumb post you had made without being told.

liz wrote: I suspect that you realised what a dumb post you had made without being told.

I knew it was a dumb post right away, because as I said it was a joke. A poorly phrased one I agree, something that I should have made clearer with a emoticon or something.

I hope Tony Abbott steps on a piece of lego, barefoot.

Nah he would never have given his girls lego to play with.

liz wrote:Nah he would never have given his girls lego to play with.

If he had given his daughters Lego to play with they may have actually become competent designers...

The number of women I've ever seen wearing a burqa: 0

Seen many wearing a hajib though.

What a fucking storm in a tea cup and blatant dog whistling, we really are going back to the nineties.

At Sydney airport the number of burquas will surprise you (they did me). In Malaysia last year they were numerous beautiful young women on honeymoon (I could see their clear pretty eyes and slender figures under monstrous costume). There are many moderate modern muslims that practice their religion without this disrespectful garb. I just want to scream to the woman in western countries who wear it , if they understand how little choice some women have. Do they understand the legitimacy they give to the political/religious factions that seek to subjugate and enslave women on a huge scale?

I've seen a few with Burqas around town. It's no biggie, I don't agree with women being forced to wear it, but that's another issue. Massive deal over nothing.

Yeah, I agree with Hellboy. I have no problem with it if they're doing it by choice.

hellboy wrote:I've seen a few with Burqas around town. It's no biggie, I don't agree with women being forced to wear it, but that's another issue. Massive deal over nothing.

It's not another issue it's very much a part of the same issue. Even in this country we have cultural/religious practices such as genital mutilation that are forced upon children and I hazard a guess that the first day a young girl dons a hijab to attend school it may not have been a decision of her own choosing.

I'm not a fan of mulch-culturalism but I do love the idea of the melting pot. You need to turn up the heat on some substances before they will melt and there are some bits and pieces that you are wasting your time throwing in in the first place. I am happy to take the best of what a cultural/religious community have to offer but I do not think for a second that we need to embrace it all. The hijab right through to the burqa at the very least highlights division and difference and not in a way that is to be celebrated.

I think that just like christianity continues to do, the muslim religion needs to adapt to the views and values of modern society and most certainly the muslim peoples who choose to relocate to "western" societies need to be amongst the pioneers. Of course if any of these people had an ounce of common sense they'd get on with the business of living their lives and leave the sky faeries in the sky.

I do think it is a conversation we should be having and obviously it is not just a conversation about what women wear it is what the clothing represents and the values it projects. It is about how we make room for these people in our communities and allow them to fully integrate as we have done with other groups in the past.