Random Tool Social Media thread

[ToolArchive]

Exactly. I brought up 764 seconds. I never said anything about 7 + 6 + 4 = 17. You were the one who took my 764 contribution and pointed out the 7 + 6 + 4 thing.

You are delusional.

If Adam Jones was available right now, he'd stop you and say "Yeah, I'm sorry but..."

You should have presented your video by saying "Here are some cool things I've noticed" rather than implying these were deliberate choices by the band.

Most of what I talk about in the first video is what the band deliberately put into the album. You can only go so far with numbers like 33 and 58, in terms of relegating their occurrence to random coincidence, before you realize that it is absolutely intentional, and an expression of the concepts Tool worked with in this album. When I mention that Venus makes a celestial pentagram every 8 years, which is 13 Venusian years, and that 8 and 13 are Fibonacci numbers 6 and 7 (recall the Danny quote), that is not to be misunderstood that this immediately has massive relevance to the album's structure and concept, it is simply one of dozens and dozens of things that will help people understand the link between number, geometry, astrology, cyclical patterns and duality, which Tool uses in the album. But on the other hand, when I talk about the numbers 33 and 58, I am absolutely implying that they are central and of enormous importance to the concept and structure of the album, because they are.

[mattw]

A person that barely knows what this subject is all about, probably has never studied the same esoteric arcana that Tool have been using and expressing for decades in their music, lyrics and artwork, and presumes to have a firm understanding of the questions solely based on my short introductory attempt at beginning to explain the mystery of Fear Inoculum, which then calls the person that barely scratched the surface on this album delusional, is delusional about their own lack of understanding.

Sorry buddy. That ONE sentence you wrote has more than 80 words in it. Kinda makes you sound... delusional.

[mattw]

Also, you're now mentioning 58 as having "central and enormous importance" to the concept/structure of the album. I think that is stretching too far.

Danny Carey was 58 when the album came out like you said in your video... but the band didn't deliberately choose to wait for Danny to be 58 years old so they could release a new album and be like "Yeah, that's a cool, deliberate reference to number harmony everyone will enjoy" etc.

People get old. Danny was in his 50s throughout most of the writing/composition of this album. Are you going to tell me that Justin was 47 during 2018 when he recorded his bass parts and that some parts of the music are in 7/4 etc.?" That's just confirming towards your bias here.

[Boldizar]

Which is not something I'm holding against you, it takes a certain kind of person to be persistent and (perhaps fanatically) dedicated to actually trying to see if the mystery of Fear Inoculum can be understood. And it can be understood, through number, sacred geometry, and a good understanding of how polarity and the monad can be expressed in audio form.

Don't know, won't know.
[We] don't know, [and we] won't know.

Fear Inoculum was never a mystery, nor did it present itself as such. It had the some of the worst marketing owed largelt to the band's lackluster PR infrastructure, a delayed physical production and then rushed release to very limited units and no international distribution. Several tracks have glaring production issues. They never even released the vinyl. Let's not even talk about the numerous unreleased proshot live shows, music videos, or the Opiate 2012 recording.

If these guys were actually doing what you think they are, the album would sound more like fax schreeing, loud human environment noises, and toolchests falling down stairs.

Props on the massive troll effort though.

[ToolArchive]

A person that barely knows what this subject is all about, probably has never studied the same esoteric arcana that Tool have been using and expressing for decades in their music, lyrics and artwork, and presumes to have a firm understanding of the questions solely based on my short introductory attempt at beginning to explain the mystery of Fear Inoculum, which then calls the person that barely scratched the surface on this album delusional, is delusional about their own lack of understanding.

Sorry buddy. That ONE sentence you wrote has more than 80 words in it. Kinda makes you sound... delusional.

Resignation to insult is usually what happens when you have no more arguments left but wish to have the last word. I can't change your false opinion about this stuff, and maybe it is entirely my fault that I chose to make the first video be what it is, rushed narration, no explanation of what I'm talking about and how this relates to the larger concept. I don't care if you don't accept what I put out in the first video, it doesn't change the (in some cases numerically verifiable) fact that most of what I briefly mentioned is in fact true, no matter how much untrue certain fans wish it to be. I'm reiterating, but there is an enormous amount of fans that are completely clueless to the geometry and number within Tool's music, and when it is brought up, it is denied, and relegated to coincidence. Not my fault.

[mattw]

^^ So would you change your mind completely if someone like Adam Jones or Maynard wrote to you and said "Sorry mate but most of what you have included in your video is just pure coincidence at best" etc.?

I saw Adam Jones do that to a fan face to face and the poor kid was pretty disappointed to hear one of his idols tell him straight up "Sorry, but that's just not true" etc.

You can keep believing in your theories here but I think you are pushing the narrative too far in a lot of cases.

[ToolArchive]

Also, you're now mentioning 58 as having "central and enormous importance" to the concept/structure of the album. I think that is stretching too far.

Danny Carey was 58 when the album came out like you said in your video... but the band didn't deliberately choose to wait for Danny to be 58 years old so they could release a new album and be like "Yeah, that's a cool, deliberate reference to number harmony everyone will enjoy" etc.

People get old. Danny was in his 50s throughout most of the writing/composition of this album. Are you going to tell me that Justin was 47 during 2018 when he recorded his bass parts and that some parts of the music are in 7/4 etc.?" That's just confirming towards your bias here.

This is what I mean about certain Tool fans. Where and when did I even slightly imply that the band waited for Danny to turn 58 lol? How do you even get to a thought like that? Danny turned 58 in 2019, a second Saturn Return begins at 57, the intense years are 58 and 59, Danny recorded Fear Inoculum when he was 57, a major aspect to the album is the return of Saturn and the potential of reflection and growth it offers. Danny becoming 58 when the album containing 58 relevance was released is just another synchronistic layer that Tool so often has utilized for their art. There is far more to 58 than the few things I mentioned in the video. Just like Adam mentioning they were creating material in 7 and then Maynard also had contributions centered around 7 and then Alex Grey also had contributions with 7, a basis on which Tool then consciously built upon with more consciously chosen riffs and patterns centered around 7 and its multiples, so is the sychronistic connection between the Saturn Return of the band (1990 - 2019), Danny turning 58 in the release year, Fear Inoculum being partially about the prospects of a successful Saturn Return, and the first 7 primes being 58, harmonious to everything else. At first it is synchronicity, then it is conscious decision to build upon it.

[ToolArchive]

^^ So would you change your mind completely if someone like Adam Jones or Maynard wrote to you and said "Sorry mate but most of what you have included in your video is just pure coincidence at best" etc.?

I saw Adam Jones do that to a fan face to face and the poor kid was pretty disappointed to hear one of his idols tell him straight up "Sorry, but that's just not true" etc.

You can keep believing in your theories here but I think you are pushing the narrative too far in a lot of cases.

You are referring to the holy gift, which is probably not (entirely?) intentional, or Problem 8, which either Adam or Justin denied was real (even though Danny said in 2014 it once "existed in their minds"). There are fans that do take it too far, and think the albums are synched up to movies. Ask Adam or Justin straight up whether the prevalence of 17, 33 or 58 in the concept, lyrics and mathematical structure of riffs and patterns in every song is merely coincidental.

[ToolArchive]

Which is not something I'm holding against you, it takes a certain kind of person to be persistent and (perhaps fanatically) dedicated to actually trying to see if the mystery of Fear Inoculum can be understood. And it can be understood, through number, sacred geometry, and a good understanding of how polarity and the monad can be expressed in audio form.

Don't know, won't know.
[We] don't know, [and we] won't know.

Fear Inoculum was never a mystery, nor did it present itself as such. It had the some of the worst marketing owed largelt to the band's lackluster PR infrastructure, a delayed physical production and then rushed release to very limited units and no international distribution. Several tracks have glaring production issues. They never even released the vinyl. Let's not even talk about the numerous unreleased proshot live shows, music videos, or the Opiate 2012 recording.

If these guys were actually doing what you think they are, the album would sound more like fax schreeing, loud human environment noises, and toolchests falling down stairs.

Props on the massive troll effort though.

You are, perhaps, one of these fans, that are incapable of acknowledging that Tool literally creates fucking magic hidden away in the structure of their songs, only to be denied when pointed out. Saying Fear Inoculum was never a mystery is even more arrogant than I sound. It is literally the biggest, most complex mystery of Tool's carrier. Mentioning certain pr and marketing issues and somehow correlating that to this idea that the stuff I (am only beginning to) point out is mere coincidence is far closer to confirmation bias and free association than you think my video is. Anyhow, there's no connection between mistakes or production problems and the structure of music Tool have been working on in some cases since (at least) 2007 (like Invincible). The existence of unreleased content isn't even relevant to this. Opiate was recorded either in late 2014 or early 2015.

[mattw]

Oh boy.

So now we have the first 7 primes, namely 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13 and 17 adding up to 58 as being just another 'example' of the band contributing something cool here? I don't think so. That is you trying to draw meaning out of something that is pretty much nothing.

Danny being at the end of his second Saturn Return because he was 58 years old? Maynard said in another podcast last year that the music the guys wrote 8 years ago sounded "fantastic" and they just kept rearranging the music. So the actual music they constructed or composed for this album was from 2007 through to 2015. They just put final arrangements together over 2016 and 2017. That's got nothing to do with Danny being towards the end of his second lot of 29 years (2 x 29 = 58). You can draw meaning out anything here. For example, 58 is made up of a 5 and an 8 and if you add the digits together you get 5 + 8 = 13 which is another prime. When will you stop? I hope what you left out of your video isn't more stuff like this.

I'll give you another example of something Adam Jones said at the VIP thing in 2013:

• Someone asked about the the final track on 10,000 Days, 'Viginti Tres'.

• Adam said the drawn out vocals you hear is from the James Bond movie 'The Man With The Golden Gun'.

• Adam said he liked how actor Christopher Lee pronounced his character's name: "Francisco Scaramanga"

• Adam took that vocal and stretched it out so that it sounded haunting/scary in Viginti Tres.

• Adam then said that's pretty much it with regard to anything cool being in that final track.

So there you go: straight from the guitarist himself. Yes, others can talk about '23' with regard to 'Viginti Tres' and other possible 'hidden meanings' but the guy making the fucking song or track gave us that insight about the vocals sample directly. There's nothing more to it other than what you imagine for yourself.

[Boldizar]

Which is not something I'm holding against you, it takes a certain kind of person to be persistent and (perhaps fanatically) dedicated to actually trying to see if the mystery of Fear Inoculum can be understood. And it can be understood, through number, sacred geometry, and a good understanding of how polarity and the monad can be expressed in audio form.

Don't know, won't know.
[We] don't know, [and we] won't know.

Fear Inoculum was never a mystery, nor did it present itself as such. It had the some of the worst marketing owed largelt to the band's lackluster PR infrastructure, a delayed physical production and then rushed release to very limited units and no international distribution. Several tracks have glaring production issues. They never even released the vinyl. Let's not even talk about the numerous unreleased proshot live shows, music videos, or the Opiate 2012 recording.

If these guys were actually doing what you think they are, the album would sound more like fax schreeing, loud human environment noises, and toolchests falling down stairs.

Props on the massive troll effort though.

The existence of unreleased content isn't even relevant to this.

Aha! But surely it is! The synchroncity of the cosmos from which they consciously crafted their numerical, geometric magnum opus is something they are tuned into. Such ommissions cannot be expected to have been made in error! These were precisely chosen sacrifices targeted toward crafting stronger numerical synergies for Fear Inoculum. Perhaps arrogance is to dismiss such clear and definite cosmic action?

[ToolArchive]

Oh boy.

So now we have the first 7 primes, namely 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13 and 17 adding up to 58 as being just another 'example' of the band contributing something cool here? I don't think so. That is you trying to draw meaning out of something that is pretty much nothing.

Danny being at the end of his second Saturn Return because he was 58 years old? Maynard said in another podcast last year that the music the guys wrote 8 years ago sounded "fantastic" and they just kept rearranging the music. You can draw meaning out anything here. For example, 58 is made up of a 5 and an 8 and if you add the digits together you get 5 + 8 = 13 which is another prime. When will you stop? I hope what you left out of your video isn't more stuff like this.

I'll give you another example of something Adam Jones said at the VIP thing in 2013:

• The final track on 10,000 Days Viginti Tres

• The drawn out vocals you here is from the James Bond movie 'The Man With The Golden Gun

• Adam said he liked how actor Christopher Lee pronounced his character's name: "Francisco Scaramanga"

• Adam took that vocal and stretched it out so that it sounded haunting/scary in Viginti Tres

• Adam then said that's pretty much it with regard to anything cool being in that final track

So there you go: straight from guitarist himself. Yes, others can talk about '23' with regard to 'Viginti Tres' but the guy making the fucking song or track gave us that insight directly. There's nothing more to it other than what you imagine for yourself.

58 is one of the central numbers to the album. And I'm not going to spoil more info on that number in the album before the 2nd video is out. That you can even think that the first 7 primes added together making 58, in an album centered around 7 and the Saturn Return, is meaningless is honestly exemplary of how utterly oblivious even hardcore Tool fans are to the actual intentions and concepts Tool put so much time and effort into. Don't get angry, but yes, 13 is literally one of the numbers most reoccurring in the album. 13 is the 7th Fibonacci number, is found in multiple songs in patterns and time signatures, and is a unit of interval between sections. I don't think you watched my video if you're surprised about 58 being the first 7 primes, and 13 stuff (which I didn't even talk about in the video). 3, 7, 11, 13, 17, 21, 33/34, 58/59.

I haven't interpreted about Viginti Tres or 10,000 Days. So mentioning that as an argument to put down my findings about Fear Inoculum has no relevance.

There was at least 1 predecessor album to Fear Inoculum, perhaps 2, that they didn't continue. This was the album(s) in 2011, 2013. Around 2015 the Fear Inoculum work began, and sections and riffs from the previous albums were carried over. Adam said the album was there about 70% in May of 2017.

[liz]

Aha! But surely it is! The synchroncity of the cosmos from which they consciously crafted their numerical, geometric magnum opus is something they are tuned into. Such ommissions cannot be expected to have been made in error! These were precisely chosen sacrifices targeted toward crafting stronger numerical synergies for Fear Inoculum. Perhaps arrogance is to dismiss such clear and definite cosmic action?

[mattw]

Yes it does have relevance. You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.

Please DO NOT make a 2nd or 3rd video with all of your leftover content... unless you want to be critiqued even further.

[Boldizar]

Oh boy.

No see, what you do is take Wings parts 1 and 2 and you make slices in the audio track at each mark for the first 7 primes. Next you take Vigniti Tres, stretch the audio by a factor of 23, the slice that 7 times. Finally you put part 2 first and intercut the 7 Vigniti Tres sections into Wings part 2 and 1 (2+1=part 3) and then you can finally hear the real Undertow.

[ToolArchive]

Yes it does have relevance. You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.

Please DO NOT make a 2nd or 3rd video with all of your leftover content... unless you want to be critiqued even further.

Someone who has no clue about any of this, with the arrogance of someone that does and opinions that only downplay the effort Tool made in the structuring of this album doesn't bother me at all, it only strengthens the unfortunate realization that Tool is about a thousand miles above the heads of 90% of their fandom.

I have no narrative. I went into this album to see what I could find, and that's rolling out over the next weeks/months.

[mattw]

Someone who has no clue about any of this, with the arrogance of someone that does and opinions that only downplay the effort Tool made in the structuring of this album doesn't bother me at all, it only strengthens the unfortunate realization that Tool is about a thousand miles above the heads of 90% of their fandom.

When people look up the word PRETENTIOUS in the dictionary or online somewhere, there should be a hyperlink to this quote as an example.

Jesus.

[ToolArchive]

Someone who has no clue about any of this, with the arrogance of someone that does and opinions that only downplay the effort Tool made in the structuring of this album doesn't bother me at all, it only strengthens the unfortunate realization that Tool is about a thousand miles above the heads of 90% of their fandom.

When people look up the word PRETENTIOUS in the dictionary or online somewhere, there should be a hyperlink to this quote as an example.

Jesus.

Me being pretentious and arrogant does not change the fact that I am right. This is stuff I've been sitting on since February 2020, verifying it, researching the concepts behind Fear Inoculum, studying and trying to understand the fundamental syncretic philosophies Tool have applied over decades in their past 3 albums, with a particular focus on number and geometry, which Adam and Danny are heavily into. Unless you can show me something where I am *verifiably* wrong about a causal relationship I mention in the video, I'm not interested in continuing to talk to someone who only has negativity, ridicule and pessimism to offer. All you can offer is that you *THINK* I am wrong about the prevalence of a number like 58 and the philosophical and personal significance it has in the album's structure, which is really all you can do, since you didn't go through every bar, every section, every riff played out on your guitar, every numerical value of every word sung and printed, etc. I did. You can only react, not contribute. I noticed 1 mistake in my video, when I mention the 24 digital roots of the 24 digit Fibonacci cycle, I actually pasted the sequence making 117 (the 2nd and all subsequent cycles), and not the 108 sequence (the first cycle) I was talking about at that point in the video.

[mattw]

What exactly are you right about? Has the band confirmed any of your theories here? Have you heard from Adam, Maynard, Danny or Justin to say "Well done!" and "You've cracked this puzzle!" etc.?

If you've been sitting on this since February 2020, then you have been delusional for nearly a full year. Sorry.

You can keep believing in your theories here about all of this significance and 'number harmony' but a lot of it is just rubbish.

I hope someone from the band gets in contact with you somehow and says "Yeah, sorry but..." to save you all of the time and effort you're going to put into a 2nd video etc. You can enjoy your pretentiousness and arrogance but I believe it is misguided here. Put your energies into something else, something more constructive. Your video is just going to lead to more so-called fans hypothesizing on all of these references. Surely the band would rather have their fans just enjoy their music and art for what it is, rather than what it isn't. Simple.

[Busty McCracken]

Fuck me, this escalated quickly! Props to the efforts of lengthy replies to both of you. Let me know when we just go back to political arguments and such controversies over using the word cunt?

[ToolArchive]

What exactly are you right about? Has the band confirmed any of your theories here? Have you heard from Adam, Maynard, Danny or Justin to say "Well done!" and "You've cracked this puzzle!" etc.?

If you've been sitting on this since February 2020, then you have been delusional for nearly a full year. Sorry.

You can keep believing in your theories here about all of this significance and 'number harmony' but a lot of it is just rubbish.

I hope someone from the band gets in contact with you somehow and says "Yeah, sorry but..." to save you all of the time and effort you're going to put into a 2nd video etc. You can enjoy your pretentiousness and arrogance but I believe it is misguided here. Put your energies into something else, something more constructive.

It is useless to argue with someone like you who knows so little and yet has the confidence of someone who knows much. You really don't. You subjectively reject my findings in the video because you don't understand the band's decades long dedication to geometry and number, you don't understand sacred geometry, alchemy, astrology, theurgy, ceremonial magic, etc. It's all "bullshit" to you, and as a result, you categorically have to deny what I found is correct, and you wouldn't understand it if you tried to study it, or the album. This is what I mean about Tool fans, the vast majority literally just don't know what the band actually puts into their songs. You can't mention a single thing where I'm wrong, so you resort to insult, because you don't want it to be correct. A number like 58 has central importance to the album, whether you like me discovering that or not. All you can do is call me delusional, yet it is actually you who is delusional about your own certainty that I'm wrong. You haven't studied the music theory of the album, the geometry expressed in the riffs, the numerical values of Maynard's words, the central current of duality in all of it, and so on.

[mattw]

What a cunt.


*That insult was to pay homage to you Busty*

[Busty McCracken]

What a cunt.


*That insult was to pay homage to you Busty*

Won't lie. Legit laughed out loud at that. Thank you!

Honestly at this point , it is the perfect response to give. He ain't going budge so really theres no point of going on with it, unless of course ya just loving how far you can push it.

[tys0n]

Not going to lie, the fact that TA has gone down a rabbit hole researching Fear Inoculum and searching for connections and meanings, while to a lot of you seems like a waste of time, to me sounds like a fun time, the esoteric nature of the shit he is talking about, the research it entails, far too much work for me, but man, what a fun time the dude must have had.

Rock on TA.

[Busty McCracken]

Not going to lie, the fact that TA has gone down a rabbit hole researching Fear Inoculum and searching for connections and meanings, while to a lot of you seems like a waste of time, to me sounds like a fun time, the esoteric nature of the shit he is talking about, the research it entails, far too much work for me, but man, what a fun time the dude must have had.

Rock on TA.

Our ideas of a fun time differ significantly. All power to TA for his enthusiasm but ya sure as shit gotta expect some push back if ya go around so matter of factly essentially telling people they just don't understand.