F O U R T H E Y E

Takeo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:47 pm Definitely a have your cake/eat it too situation and an innovative approach by the band.

I'm pretty sure it was their only option.

lo7us wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:22 pm I logged in here after a long hiatus. Sup guys?!!

Personally, I think that Descending is a better song than anything off of 10,000 Days!

Agree...disagree?...

What's up Lotus. Good to see you back.

So the second half of Descending must have lyrical content of some sort come album time? I’m trying to think of another song where Maynard is not present at or near the end the complete the song.

Wasn’t production rumored to be finished in early March based on the studio photo with Baresi and Ludwig? And that packaging caused a brief delay? Doesn’t matter. It’s worked out well.

Shed523 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:03 pm So the second half of Descending must have lyrical content of some sort come album time? I’m trying to think of another song where Maynard is not present at or near the end the complete the song.

He puts in a pretty half arsed effort during triad

Busty McCracken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Shed523 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:03 pm So the second half of Descending must have lyrical content of some sort come album time? I’m trying to think of another song where Maynard is not present at or near the end the complete the song.

He puts in a pretty half arsed effort during triad

I thought Triad was some of his best work

264zn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:40 pm

Busty McCracken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Shed523 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:03 pm So the second half of Descending must have lyrical content of some sort come album time? I’m trying to think of another song where Maynard is not present at or near the end the complete the song.

He puts in a pretty half arsed effort during triad

I thought Triad was some of his best work

I know Mog is certainly hopeful he can replicate some of that stellar work on this new album

I don't see how May May could offer any lyrics to the second half of Descending, if he could have he would have.

It's just so already complete.

It even has the Triad synth part in there near the end.

tys0n wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:15 am I don't see how May May could offer any lyrics to the second half of Descending, if he could have he would have.

It's just so already complete.

It even has the Triad synth part in there near the end.

It totally sounds like he should come in at the gong hit with some subtle, long notes, sort of responding to the guitar but not getting in the way, cutting out as the end guitar solo comes in. This would tie everything together to me. Unless! the entire 'A/Descending" thing was a reference to how the song is essentially divided into to two parts, the one with words and the other half as an instrumental.

Hi there, I attended Prague and Vienna shows and noticed Justin uses a HH Musicman Stingray during Descending. I didnt see this mentioned before, I thought I would share it here, it was interesting to me - being a JC fan-. (I wonder if he used it also in the studio)

agreed with tyson. i thought 10k songs werent the ones when it leaked. i doubt they would ''rubics cube'' anything either. if they pull some weird move im cool with that too but i dont think its that elaborate. they have enough on there hands as it is getting those two new songs down live.

I don't understand why people think MJK should sing in the second half. Tool has so many cool instrumental parts and Descending's second half is just one of them. Actually thinking that is why the song sounds so awesome anyway.

And with the A/Descending name on some setlists I do think there will be an "Ascending" song or segue on the album.

Connecting back to Viginti Tres.

Boldizar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:44 am

tys0n wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:15 am I don't see how May May could offer any lyrics to the second half of Descending, if he could have he would have.

It's just so already complete.

It even has the Triad synth part in there near the end.

It totally sounds like he should come in at the gong hit with some subtle, long notes, sort of responding to the guitar but not getting in the way, cutting out as the end guitar solo comes in. This would tie everything together to me. Unless! the entire 'A/Descending" thing was a reference to how the song is essentially divided into to two parts, the one with words and the other half as an instrumental.

Defiantly think if there is no lyrical content then it should and will be spilt some how. A/Descending the order just seams flipped to me like the whole band should finish this epic tune. Kind of like all their other songs.

atax wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:13 am Hi there, I attended Prague and Vienna shows and noticed Justin uses a HH Musicman Stingray during Descending. I didnt see this mentioned before, I thought I would share it here, it was interesting to me - being a JC fan-. (I wonder if he used it also in the studio)

What’s his other bass?

ms2r wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 am I don't understand why people think MJK should sing in the second half. Tool has so many cool instrumental parts and Descending's second half is just one of them.

That is the thing, this isn't one section, it's an entire half of a song (and one half that is long than most songs in general). For a band with a vocalist, it comes off as odd to any reasonable observer. The test it doesn't pass for me is, what would be the difference if Maynard sang on none of the song? If it is so natural for him not to do anything to tie the end together, why can't the first half be instrumental as well? The music is essentially the same thematically in the second half, why is one part considered an "instrumental" and the other not? Because Maynard sings and Maynard doesn't. If he had sang at the end, no one would have thought twice about it. Sure, maybe it's a creative choice, whatever that is fine. But the generally accepted tone of the argument that this makes perfect sense is lacking.

This song would be way more rounded with a some panting murmurs underneath the Misery Signals breakdown with a pitched yell with the gong hit, reaffirming the passionate call from the first half. My secret hope is that this is indeed what happens, but Maynard is saving his voice or something.

@Shed523 Justin plays Wals normally. I am curious to hear from him why he is changing it up for that tune.

Boldizar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:00 am

ms2r wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 am I don't understand why people think MJK should sing in the second half. Tool has so many cool instrumental parts and Descending's second half is just one of them.

That is the thing, this isn't one section, it's an entire half of a song (and one half that is long than most songs in general). For a band with a vocalist, it comes off as odd to any reasonable observer. The test it doesn't pass for me is, what would be the difference if Maynard sang on none of the song? If it is so natural for him not to do anything to tie the end together, why can't the first half be instrumental as well? The music is essentially the same thematically in the second half, why is one part considered an "instrumental" and the other not? Because Maynard sings and Maynard doesn't. If he had sang at the end, no one would have thought twice about it. Sure, maybe it's a creative choice, whatever that is fine. But the generally accepted tone of the argument that this makes perfect sense is lacking.

This song would be way more rounded with a some panting murmurs underneath the Misery Signals breakdown with a pitched yell with the gong hit, reaffirming the passionate call from the first half. My secret hope is that this is indeed what happens, but Maynard is saving his voice or something.

@Shed523 Justin plays Wals normally. I am curious to hear from him why he is changing it up for that tune.

Thanks! I completely agree and I love that kind of adds to this “mystery” surrounding Descending that I know I’ve created in my mind and see others are on that same wave!

Christ what is with these redditors. Descending is Descending. The song they played live is the song you are going to hear on the album. As for the second half Maynard doesn't sing because it isn't necessary. Tool have never been a band that work off of a standard 4/4 chrous/verse etc etc. The first half of the song is constructed for vocals to fit and the lyrics fit well. The second half of the song is a showcase for Justin, Danny and Adam and lyrics would ruin what they are doing there musically. There isn't any room at all for vocals and vocals wouldn't make sense musically in the second half.

Long instrumental sections are nothing new to Tool. Why the lack of vocals on the second half of Descending is problematic for some of you is beyond me.

M0G wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm Christ what is with these redditors. Descending is Descending. The song they played live is the song you are going to hear on the album. As for the second half Maynard doesn't sing because it isn't necessary. Tool have never been a band that work off of a standard 4/4 chrous/verse etc etc. The first half of the song is constructed for vocals to fit and the lyrics fit well. The second half of the song is a showcase for Justin, Danny and Adam and lyrics would ruin what they are doing there musically. There isn't any room at all for vocals and vocals wouldn't make sense musically in the second half.

Long instrumental sections are nothing new to Tool. Why the lack of vocals on the second half of Descending is problematic for some of you is beyond me.

Crazy to think that a whole new generation is discovering Tool right now, that's gotta be a part of it. About a good third of Pushit and Third Eye are vox-less, Flood's intro is akin to Descending's outro, Triad,.etc.

limeygringo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:35 pm

M0G wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm Christ what is with these redditors. Descending is Descending. The song they played live is the song you are going to hear on the album. As for the second half Maynard doesn't sing because it isn't necessary. Tool have never been a band that work off of a standard 4/4 chrous/verse etc etc. The first half of the song is constructed for vocals to fit and the lyrics fit well. The second half of the song is a showcase for Justin, Danny and Adam and lyrics would ruin what they are doing there musically. There isn't any room at all for vocals and vocals wouldn't make sense musically in the second half.

Long instrumental sections are nothing new to Tool. Why the lack of vocals on the second half of Descending is problematic for some of you is beyond me.

Crazy to think that a whole new generation is discovering Tool right now, that's gotta be a part of it. About a good third of Pushit and Third Eye are vox-less, Flood's intro is akin to Descending's outro, Triad,.etc.

First saw TOOL in 01’ 10 times total. Not trying to measure my dick but my opinions are based on years of analyzing and over analyzing their music. TOOL in my option finish their songs like no other band and a big part of that is Maynard’s genius contributes weather powerful or subtle. The only example anyone can give is Triad but that is a different track. That said I love Descending and will come album time I am a TOOL homer! Lol Redditors

M0G wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm Christ what is with these redditors.

Fourtheye will be back to the same 10 or 15 curmudgeons by 2023.

Hopefully. Could use with a few of the curmudgeons that have left. I’ve said it before and will say again, I miss cheese.

Is a discussion on if/how the back half of Descending merits vocals worthy, mildly interesting, and entirely legitimate message board fodder? If not, then what’s the point of all this?

Boldizar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:44 am

tys0n wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:15 am I don't see how May May could offer any lyrics to the second half of Descending, if he could have he would have.

It's just so already complete.

It even has the Triad synth part in there near the end.

It totally sounds like he should come in at the gong hit with some subtle, long notes, sort of responding to the guitar but not getting in the way, cutting out as the end guitar solo comes in. This would tie everything together to me. Unless! the entire 'A/Descending" thing was a reference to how the song is essentially divided into to two parts, the one with words and the other half as an instrumental.

I can kinda see him coming in there too. But if it's just subtle contribution, then I think he probably would be doing it live too. He only seems to omit things live when they are too much of a strain on his voice.

I don't think Maynard is holding back on either song - the vocals we have now are the vocals we'll get in my opinion. To my ears Descending sounds "complete".

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a Descending part 2 or an Ascending though

M0G wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm Christ what is with these redditors. Descending is Descending. The song they played live is the song you are going to hear on the album. As for the second half Maynard doesn't sing because it isn't necessary. Tool have never been a band that work off of a standard 4/4 chrous/verse etc etc. The first half of the song is constructed for vocals to fit and the lyrics fit well. The second half of the song is a showcase for Justin, Danny and Adam and lyrics would ruin what they are doing there musically. There isn't any room at all for vocals and vocals wouldn't make sense musically in the second half.

Long instrumental sections are nothing new to Tool. Why the lack of vocals on the second half of Descending is problematic for some of you is beyond me.

This was so preoccupied with self-righteous conceit and presumption that it completely missed the point and instead fumes over strawmen, and for no god damn reason. There is no reason to get your panties in a twist over this, talking about music.

Of course long instrumentals are nothing new. What is odd is that a straight half of a song is instrumental (imagine if it were Ticks and Leeches or the Grudge). As far as Maynard not singing because "it's not necessary", well why is it necessary at all (and I already addressed this point)? Having a little tie in to bring the vocal back would not ruin anything. I specifically said what I imagined was underneath everything and brief. But it was all just speculation and talking. Nothing more.

The stronger point I suggested was that A/Descending was a specific reference to this half and half split in the song (as opposed to it referencing two different tracks with a shared motif). That is even specifically how the mid point feels as Maynard signs off into the big syncopated hits.

And the whining about reddit... nothing about your response is any better that the typical contrarian reddit fare (including another comment questioning if this is even worth discussing) with added entitled gate-keeping. I have no idea what sanctity you are worried about losing. The only thing missing is the meaningless downvote.

Descending sounds complete to me. Additional vocals would undermine the “ascension” of the music. It works. On the flip side, I can absolutely imagine a Grudgy scream toward the end and have it resolve with Maynard. Either way, it can be reminiscent of earlier songs.

The real question is whether A/ exists or if Descending is tied into a segue. As Hellboy already mentioned...